Episode 16 - Confidence - which "muscle" do you use?

Understanding 'confidence' is more complex than it seems. It's a multi-faceted concept that goes far beyond 'introvert' vs. 'extravert'.

Welcome to today's conversation on People Matters at Realising Potential Ltd where Fiona Brookwell and Michael Jones share their insights into the three types of confidence — self-confidence, social confidence, and knowledge-based confidence. 

They talk about how these different "muscles" influence our interactions, creativity, and workplace dynamics. Whether you are naturally introspective or thrive on social interaction, or you are somewhere in between, this episode provides valuable perspectives on how to foster awareness of other people's needs and drives, and navigate a world that often favours extraversion.

If you'd like to find out more about how we can help your people, teams and businesses realise their potential, please visit our website.

Transcript

Neale James: Here's what's on today's edition of Realising Potential with Fiona Brookwell and Michael Jones. 

Fiona Brookwell: I'm a very highly socially confident individual. I'm not actually quite self-confident. 

Michael Jones: We tend to have to work in a world that appreciates extroversion. 

Fiona Brookwell: Self-confidence, social confidence, and confidence that comes from knowledge base. 

Michael Jones: There is a challenge if you are somebody that is naturally more introspective and possibly fairly introverted.   

Neale James: Let's talk about confidence. Tell me about the, the degrees of it and why some people seem to have lots and some seemingly not so much.  

Fiona Brookwell: Judging people's confidence level is an interesting point of discussion, because a lot of people think that confidence is, is just measured on sort of one dimension. 

You either have high confidence or you have low confidence. In our experience, actually we split it into three different types of confidence, and we split it into self-confidence, social confidence and confidence that comes from knowledge base. And these are different muscles that we have.  

So, you can have high self-confidence and low social confidence. Um, you can have high social confidence and low self-confidence. You can have low self-confidence, low social confidence, but you can have confidence that comes from your knowledge base. So, if you were looking at somebody standing on a podium, for example, giving a lecture, you actually don't know which muscle they're necessarily using to give that, and whether it's one muscle, whether it's two, or whether it's all three.  

So, it could be their self-confidence that I have belief in my own views, my own ideas, my own initiatives, and my own opinions, and I therefore feel confident to stand here and talk to you about this subject. So that could be one. 

Or it might be, actually, I really know my subject very well, I'm a very highly socially confident individual, I'm not actually quite so self-confident, but I've got high social confidence and I'm prepared on my topic, so I'm very happy to stand on the podium, smile sweetly at you and talk to you about this, and please ask me any questions as we go along. 

So, it could be that or it could be that actually I don't have particularly high self-confidence or social confidence, but you know what technically I'm an expert in this topic and I feel qualified to stand here and talk to you about it. Which you will perceive as ‘with confidence’, but actually it's my knowledge base that is giving me the ability to do this. 

And, uh, I always had a theory that, in actual fact, a lot of, um, actors and actresses and comedians, they, they get misunderstood. So, because they stand on a stage, or they, they go on a movie set or whatever, or in front of a TV camera and extrovert, people perceive them as being extroverts.  In our experience, a lot of really creative people are actually quite introspective people and may even be classed as introverts. 

But the job that they do is they have to actually sell their art, and they have to extrovert. But then when they've done that and they come off stage and they go back of house, they really need to go and hide away and get into quite a deep place to, to do their, their thinking and their reflection on things. 

Michael Jones: One of the words that's dogged me my whole life is the word ‘shy’. I hate the word shy. And as a child, I was called shy. And I hear other people talk about other people and saying they're shy individuals. And it's a word that I think people often don't fully understand. And as a card-carrying member of the introvert club, I think the word ‘shy’ is massively misunderstood. 

And I think picking up perhaps some of the points that Fiona's just made, you know, I'm not a shy person, but I am often very awkward in social interaction, although I've taught myself not to be. And that generally comes from the fact that I will put myself into social situations where my self-confidence takes me, but then I find myself struggling a little bit, or historically until I learned how to do it, struggling because I'm not somebody who finds chitchat with people I don't know or with whom I share some common interest, I don't find it easy to do.  

And I think it's one of the challenges that those of us who see ourselves as having a preference for introversion is that we tend to have to work in a, in a world that appreciates extraversion. It's that we should get ourselves out there, that we should be able to chat to other people. And I think it's sometimes the case that, although I think this is changing of late, that, you know,  introversion in itself is a superpower in that, you know, some of us, as Fiona said, some of our, possibly our most creative people, some of our most successful actors possibly… 

It does bring this ability to bring something different to the debates and to the discussion. 

Fiona Brookwell: In my experience, deep, deep thinking brings about creativity. Deep thinking brings about ideas. So, so people who are, who are more introspective, you know, these are the people that will say, interesting question, leave that with me. 

Just, sorry, let me just digest that. And these are people that need that quiet time for their own thinking, their own introspection. And, and people, you might talk to them about something and say, leave that with me. And they come in the next day, and they say, I just reflected on what you said yesterday in the meeting, and when I was in the shower this morning, or when I was walking the dog last night, actually it came to me, and actually what we need to do is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And you'll get your answer there.  

So, you know, in my experience, if you know you're dealing with somebody who is more introspective, don't put them on the spot. Don't ambush them at the coffee machine for an instant answer on something.  

But plant seeds. Give them a suggestion, give them a topic, you know, plant a seed and ‘I'd love your views on such and such. Can I leave that with you? When you're ready, come back and, and talk to me about that’. And it's, it's deep thinking and introspection that often brings about creativity and, and ideas. 

And of course, that doesn't mean that people who are naturally more socially orientated and, and get energy from the social engagement, more extrovert people; it doesn't mean to say they can't be creative, but their creativity in our experience comes from a different place. And that creativity often comes from the external world. 

So, it's not what you've sat and thought about on your own, but it's, it's stimulus that's come from a conversation that you've had or something that you've seen or, um, a presentation that you were part of, or something you've witnessed. or, you know, and I've picked your brains, and shall we just grab a coffee and just have a chat about, I've got this problem, I'd love your views and thoughts, let me pick your brains. 

So, in my experience, naturally more extrovert people lesser think of themselves as truly creative and often more class themselves as to be resourceful. So, it's not what's come from within me, but I've, I've pinched, beg, borrowed it and stolen from the, the resources around me and, and managed to resourcefully pull that together to come up with the creative solution. 

Michael Jones: Picking up the point that Fiona made about the, the coffee machine. I think it's important to realise that there's a, there's a difference as well, you know, we don't have to go out of our way to accommodate the introverts or the introspective individuals because, you know, those of us who do identify in that way also need to make a bit of an effort to accommodate the people that like to talk, that do want to socially interact.  

So, I think it's important that we understand that each of those two things, they're just things. They're not good things or they're not bad things. Some of us have a natural orientation and need to talk in order to lubricate our thinking process. So that's fine. That's good. And it should be encouraged.  

Other of us, on the other hand, would prefer to have a little bit of advanced warning about what we're going to talk about so that when we talk about it, we're fluent and we're prepared and we're comfortable doing that. Sometimes the challenge comes in a work environment, when people who are at the other end of those scales, who don't necessarily understand the need that other people have to do things differently to the way that they do them, too.  

And I think there is a challenge. If you are somebody that is naturally more introspective and possibly fairly introverted in your orientation, when you work with somebody who talks very fluently and easily, and you can see them processing information in nanoseconds, whereas, of course, you're  much more deep in terms of a need to reflect on what was said before you reply to what has been said.  

So, I think it's really important to not just, you know, to accommodate the introverts, if that's the right word, but also for those of us who are like that, to make an effort to get out there to talk, you know, and it's not an excuse, I think, to say that, well, you know, I'm an introvert, I can't do that. 

If you are working in an extroverted environment, which many of us choose to do, we need to develop the skills to do that, because it's not a natural orientation. But it doesn't mean that we can't do it well, as long as we work on it as a skill and develop it.  

Fiona Brookwell: However, it uses a lot of energy. Again, in my experience, it's easier for extroverts to, you know, try and hold back a little bit and not talk so much and is, is less energy sapping than it is for introspective people to just get out there and engage in the external world. So, Michael's right, of course, we live in an external world. So, you know, if you don't put a bit of effort into it, then, you know, things might well pass you by.  

But there is an energy reserve that, that needs to be pulled from for introspective people to be able to engage in the external world. So, getting back to the, um, you know, the world of the extrovert and the reality is, the way we sum it up is that, uh, you know, introspective people think first, talk second. Uh, natural extraverts have a tendency to talk first, think second.  

It doesn't necessarily mean to say the quality of the output is any better by either party, but it's just the way they process information. So, the true extroverts will often start a sentence, or they'll start a conversation, and they have no idea where it's going to end up. But the more they talk, and the more they get engagement from the resources and the sources and the people around them, the conversation flows, and one to the other, one to the other, to, ah, actually, so what we mean to say is this, this, this, and we come to the conclusion. 

Whereas more introspective people, you might ask the question, they go, ah, okay.
 
Realising Potential with Fiona Brookwell and Michael Jones. For more information about our services and organisation visit www.rpx2.com.